stuck in Minor 3rd & Major 3rd - Harmonic (common tone)

[GatesofDawn67]

When the upper tone is common, the first interval is a major third and to create the second interval the bottom tone is raised to make a minor third, this new interval sounds more major to me.

Conversely, when the upper tone is common, the first interval is a minor third and the bottom tone is lowered to make the second interval a major third, it sounds more minor to me.

How does one get past this illusion?

It would be nice if there was an intermediate lesson where only the upper note changed, before going to the more complicated mix of moving lower and upper tones.

[Niclas]

Hi there

If you start the exercise as a customized activity, you can control all the settings, including the comon notes. This way you should be able to make the intermediate lesson that you are seeking.

-Niclas

[GatesofDawn67]

Thank you for your speedy response to my question.

I was able to make the bottom tone the common tone of my harmonic intervals and that was great, but now I would like to make the upper tone the common tone for harmonic intervals. My only choices are first (bottom) and first or last.

[Niclas]

Oh, my bad. You are right, that is not possible. However if you set the activity to play the interval descending, it will be the highest note first, and then that will be the comon note.

-Niclas

[GatesofDawn67]

The thing I find difficult with thirds (and sixths) is that sometimes a major third will sound minor and vice versa. This happens often enough that I cannot make it through the 3rds or 6ths (I have made it through all the other intervals and these are preventing me from moving on).

I think it is because first I hear one interval, then another and the first interval influences how I perceive the second. A real example is when the EarMaster played A and C and then it played Gb and Bb. Gb/Bb then sounded like a minor third to me. In this case Gb/Bb is a minor third below A/C and that is probably what influenced me.

Is there a way to clear your mind from the previous intervals you hear?

[Niclas]

Maybe it will help to use songs to determine the intervals? I know that can be very helpful. We have an Interval song chart here:
http://www.earmaster.com/products/free- ... rator.html, that shows which famous songs are using the different intervals.

-Niclas

[GatesofDawn67]

Thanks for your response. I do use songs. For example, Brahms' Lullaby is the song I use for a minor third and Kumbaya is what I use for a major 3rd.

When EarMaster plays me a harmonic interval, I tease apart the two notes and sing them. Then I start singing Brahms' Lullaby and so I answer minor third. The answer ends up being a major third. I was singing Brahms' Lullaby with a major third! Yet I've heard this song my whole life. I also listen to it on youtube before I start and periodically while I use EarMaster.

Am I a hopeless case? I can hear 2nds, 7ths and tritones really well.

[Quentin]

I also still have difficulties sometimes with M3/m3, they are a bit tricky. What has helped me was to do the exercise with a guitar in my hands, and play each interval before and after each question. Somehow, it makes it easier to internalize their sounds.

[GatesofDawn67]

Thanks Quentin! I'll try that.

[Arre]

I'm visiting this forum just because I have the same problem.

It helps a lot to know, that I'm not the only one struggling with that issue.

When I'm using a customized lesson (in which the first tone is the same), I don't have problems at all, but if it's the mixed way (one time the first tone is the same, next time the last one is the same), that is really hard for me.

If anyone has another tip to overcome the problem, that would be very helpful.

Greetings

[Sarmad]

I have the same problem, but I think it's the way our brains are conditioned.
Also, I don't know how useful it is to learn random intervals, around 80 % of the music around has a fixed key.
The reason in my opinion why min3/maj3 confusion happens is because we always think or want a reference point to compare everything from. When we have lowest common tones while comparing two intervals (like C Eb and C E (C is the ref point)), our brain rightfully hears it as min 3rd and maj 3rd, but when the highest tone is common (like Ab C and A C (C is the reference point), and we are actually hearing m6 and maj6, and not min 3 and maj 3. While we can teach our ears to think and hear differently (as I did successfully complete the module), I don't know if it has real world application? ... again my opinion, I could be totally wrong.